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Questions and Answers
Part 17. Answered by: P. T. Kekkonen
SCHWARZLOSE "STANDART" PISTOL MODEL 1898
Seeking available information for Schwarzlose Model 1898 automatic pistol, 7.63mm Mauser cartidge. Technical specifications, diagrams, history, valuation (thus far, +/-$3-4,000 US) and other pertinent material. Digital photograph of specific item available upon request. Thank you.
Known as "STANDART" pistol, this rare selfloading handgun was a design of ANDREAS WILHELM SCHWARZLOSE (1867 - 1936), born in Prussia (later Germany), resident of Berlin, although mentioned sometimes incorrectly as an Austrian, because of his first really successful invention, machine gun Modell 1907, was adopted first in Austro-Hungarian Empire. Standart or Military pistol was patented first in Britain (as usual in those days. Br. Pat. N:r. 1934, registration date 23rd April 1898). Patent drawing of the Standart pistol shows an accelerator lever, similar to that of Finnish LAHTI L-35 pistol (it's "Achillean Heel"). Schwarzlose Standart pistol prototypes were designed to shoot 7.65 x 25 mm BORCHARDT cartridges, but the accelerator was omitted from the actually producted pistols - at least from majority of them.
Drawing from British Patent N:r. 1934/ 1898. The accelerator lever is present on Fig. 2 (above trigger) in it's rearmost position. It was actually neither needed nor adopted to the Schwarzlose Standart pistols shooting cartridges more powerful than those loaded for 7.65 x 25 mm Borchardt. From the production pistols M-1898 was also omitted a projecting cocking handle on the left side of a breech-bolt (Fig. 4 and 5), which was seemingly copied from Borchardt C-93 pistol.
When the breech-bolt was blown back after unlocking by residual powder gas pressure only, it was possible to shoot also more heavily loaded 7.63 x 25 mm MAUSER cartridges from Standart pistol. I recommend, however, use of handloads with slighty reduced charges; about "Suggested Starting Loads" of .30 Mauser cartridges. Don't risk your valuable collector's item by shooting with 7.62 mm Tokarev factory-loaded ammo. Especially Czech loads are very strong medicine! Price of a Schwarzlose Standart pistol in "safe shootable condition" is today $ US 5.000+. You seemingly didn't know, what a treasure you're possessing. If your pistol is in "mint" condition, value of it may be as high as $ 7.500 or still higher.
Most probable country where one can meet today a "for sale" Standart pistol is Russia! Total number of produced pistols is unknown. They were offered for sale in Germany, England and United States, but a small manufacture "A.W. SCHWARZLOSE G.m.b.H. BERLIN" was unknow, while LUDWIG LOEWE/ D.W.M. (manufacturer of BORCHARDT C-93 pistols) and WAFFENFABRIK MAUSER were well-known big industrial companies. They offered selfloading pistols about similar to Standart for sale. They had a lot more production and sales (read: advertisement and bribing) capacity than newcomer Schwarzlose. Big competitors, especially Mauser, had the "battle proven" pistol in production especially after the end of South-African Boer War (1899 - 1902).
Boers bought a lot of their military firearms from Germany, especially from Waffenfabrik Mauser (but the feared 37 mm MAXIM machine cannons; "POM-POM guns"; from England!). Mauser pistols were noted because of their hailstorm-like firepower and 7 mm Mauser rifles due to their almost incredible long-range accuracy. (Fire of the British attackers fell usually short, because they shot hollow-pointed "Dum-Dum" bullets, while sights of their rifles were adjusted for shooting with heavier solid-pointed roundnosed projectiles). A.W. Schwarzlose was able to sell just a small lot of Standart pistols to Boers before the end of South-African War, but a couple of years later his company was able to trade a lot of thousand pistols to Imperial Russia. Not to Russian Army, Navy, Police, Ohrana (predecessor of KGB) or Gendarmery, but to the left wing of Russian Social-Democratic Party, which was preparing to insurrection in late 1904 or early 1905. These pistols were confiscated at Russian border and issued to the Imperial Russian Frontier Guards.
Construction of Standart M-98 pistol is ingenious: Number of the parts is tried to keep minimum. Examples given: The recoil spring acts also as a mainspring (just like in a later F.N./ Browning Model 1899/1900) and the sear acts also as the extractor of empty cases. Standart M-98 pistol also looks like a military pistol; not the disassembled pistol-carbine like a clumsy Borchardt C-93 or Mauser C-96, designed for use with the shoulder-stock, and as a handgun just in the grave emergency.
Standart M-98 pistol was designed for use as a true handgun; no more as a surrogate autoloader carbine. Frontmost lever on the left side is a safety. Positions of it are "SAFE" downwards and "FIRE" upwards. Rearmost lever is a hold-open catch ("setting lever") of a breech-block, which keep the bolt in it's rear position during removal of an empty magazine and insertion of a filled clip. Pistol is cocked on the picture. Note a prominently extruding rear end of a striker; easy to see and feel. Thumb of a shooter is pushing the safety lever to "FIRE" position, and the forefinger is away from the trigger. (Source: Engraved illustration from the Schwarzlose manual, published in 1901).
Functioning of M-98 is as follows, according to EDWARD C. EZELL: "It was not only quite modern in appearance but also very advanced in concept. It is of technical interest because of its rotary-locked breech mechanism, which consisted of three main assemblies - barrel and barrel extension, bolt, and frame (receiver). Barrel and barrel extension were machined from a single piece. Below the octagonal REINFORCE section of the barrel, there was a rectangular section that rode in a track in the frame and housed the barrel returning spring. The barrel extension was at the breech end of the barrel, which was cut to receive four lugs of the bolt. The bolt group consisted of the bolt, striker and spring, and the one-piece sear extractor.
About 25 millimeters in diameter at its largest point, this essentially cylindrical bolt had four locking lugs that matched locking recesses in the barrel extension. Interior of the bolt had been bored out to an interior diameter 17.5 millimeters, which resulted in a relatively light weight and provided room for the striker and combination striker-recoil spring. On the bolt bottom was a slot, helical at the rear for about 25 millimeters and then straight for 50 millimeters, that provided the necessary rotation for the bolt to unlock it from it from the barrel extension. The striker was a very large piece, 120 millimeters long, which in the cocked position was held to the rear by combination sear-extractor, a right-angled bell crank lever that floated in a vertical slot in the forward portion of the striker when the bolt and striker were moving.
The receiver group housed all the non-reciprocating parts of the pistol. It is noteworthy that Schwarzlose included only four springs in the pistol - the receiver-mounted magazine catch spring, the barrel return spring, the bolt & striker spring, and the rear sight spring. Rotation of the bolt was accomplished by the cam slot on the bolt moving along a cam-receiver ring at the rear of receiver. That ring rode inside the bolt while its rectangular stalk guided the cam slot in the bolt. When the Standart was fired, the barrel and bolt assemblies recoiled in reaction to the bullet's flight down the barrel. After traveling 19 millimeters, the barrel was stopped by the full compression of the spring beneath it. Meanwhile, the bolt had rotated through 45 degrees counter-clockwise. Having rotated 45 degrees, the bolt was free to continue rearwards for 50 millimeters, the barrel assembly, powered by its compressed recoil spring, returned forwards for 4.8 millimeters until it was caught by the barrel HOLDER (catch).
Ejection of the fired cartridge occurred toward the end of recoil cycle when a lug on the bolt actuated the ejector. On the return stroke, the bolt was propelled by the return spring. Traveling forwards, the bolt stripped the next cartridge from magazine, fed it into the chamber and then rotated shut. In the process of rotation, the cylindrical section of the bolt depressed the rear of the barrel catch, thus permitting the locked bolt and barrel assemblies to continue their forward travel. The striker was held in the cocked position by the combination of sear-extractor." (Quotation from a book "HANDGUNS OF THE WORLD" by E.C.EZELL (C) 1981. Published by the permission of it's author and publisher, ARMS AND ARMOUR PRESS).
Parts of Schwarzlose pistol M-1898. Nomenclature of them is somewhat archaic, because this picture is 100+ years old. (Source: Schwartzlose catalog in English; 1901).
I have never seen the pistol M-98, but I tried to illustrate it to the Finnish book "ARMA FENNICA Vol.2; SOTILASASEET", printed in 1987. (Nowadays presumably out of print).
Fig 1: Partial cut-away of the Schwarzlose pistol Model 1898.
Fig 2: Rear view of the receiver. Please note: The "retraction ears" of the bolt may be shorter than those on the picture.
Fig 3: Rear end of the handle frame.
Fig 4: Locking/ unlocking slot of the bolt.
Fig 5: "BANG!" Although the tubular breech-bolt of pistol model 1898 is light, the bolt of Mauser C-96 is still less heavy. It is "hugaa" ("bullshit") to say that Schwarzlose Modell 1898 is unable to stand 7.93 x 25 mm cartridges, but the old iron may be somewhat fatigued. If you shoot, use handloaded cartridges loaded to generate marginally reliable automatic functioning.
(Copyright of drawing: P.T.KEKKONEN (C) 1986).
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS OF SCHWARZLOSE PISTOL M-1898
Caliber.................... 7.63 x 25 mm Mauser
Overall length................. 273 millimeters
Barrel length..................163 millimeters
Weight (with empty magazine)......... 785 grams
Rifling......4 grooves, clockwise, twist 240 mm
Operation method........semi-long barrel recoil
Locking method.........rotating bolt, four lugs
Magazine capacity...............7 cartridges *)
*) That's why the Imperial German armed forces were never interested in M-1898 pistol despite of its advanced technology: The High Brass of German Army had a "fix idé" that a minimum magazine capacity of an autoloading pistol should be at least eight rounds of ammo.
BALLISTICS OF CONTEMPORARY CARTRIDGES (in 1899)
Pistol STANDART M-98 BORCHARDT C-93 MAUSER C-96
Cartridge 7.63 x 25 mm 7.65 x 25 mm 7.63 x 25 mm
Bullet weight 5.50 grams 5.5 - 5.6 g 5.0 - 6.0 g
Velocity m/sec. 450*) 385**) 443**)
Energy, Joules 550*) 406**) 539**)
*) Muzzle velocity and energy. (Note also the barrel length).
**) Velocity and energy at distance 5 meters from the muzzle.
Cartridges shot from M-98 and C-93 were same D.W.M. (headstamp "403") loads with a bullet weight 5.5 grams and maximum allowed chamber pressure 2600 atmospheres. All the listed cartridges have very same dimensions despite of nominally .02 mm bigger caliber of Borchardt C-93 pistols. The overall length of 7.65 x 25 mm cartridge was also 2 mm shorter than 7.63 mm Mauser or 7.62 mm Tokarev cartridges. Bullet diameter was and is same in all of these cartridges, and so is also the usual bullet weight 5.5 grams, with a more recent exception: Czechian M-48 ammo, designed for submachine guns and CZ Wzor 1952 pistols (only). Measured muzzle velocity of its bullet is 500 meters per second from the CZ Model 1952 pistol.
PS. Digital photos are welcome to us. I can estimate real value of your Modell 1898 pistol more exactly if I can see even the appearance of it. There are collectible firearms in "mint" condition, in "relic" condition, and in (at least) five condition classes between these extremes. Even the pistol in "relic" condition may be valuable, if it is a rare model. And your Schwarzlose Standart M-98 is truly a "rara avis".
1612 MMI; PT
NOISE SUPPRESSOR FOR A SHOTGUN
Hi. I think you guys are doing a wonderful job. I would be very grateful if you send me the details of how to build a suppressor or silencer for a 12 gauge shotgun: I think the silent hunter is the most successful hunter.
Thanks in advance; Wilson.
Shotgun suppressor. Drawing (c) Feliks.
The design of shotgun suppressor is tried in many countries, including (and especially) in Finland, but it was found that the noise of 12 gauge shotshells is very difficult to suppress if the muzzle velocity of birdshots is more than ca. 140 meters per second (ca. 460 feet per second). These measurements of shooting noise were done with special ammo AAI Telecartridge, which trapped all the powder gasses inside the shotshell case. There was not the muzzle blast at all.
12 Ga shotgun Reflex suppressors are made by special order by BR-Tuote. They do require individual mounting to each shotgun by the manufacturer so they are unfortunately not available outside Finland.
It is possible to suppress the shooting noise of a 12 gauge shotgun slug load only, generating subsonic muzzle velocity no more than 300 meters per second (984 fps) with the muzzle mounted silencer or with the Telecartridge or a captive piston shotshell, which traps all the powder gasses inside the case. Only modern shotgun able to become suppressed with the shot charges is .410, but the subsonic ammo for it should be reloaded with "trial & error" method: No manual or handbook offers data for handloading of subsonic .410 shotshells.
2012 MMI; PT
SUPPRESSORS AND FREEDOM OF PRINT IN FINLAND
Sir, I found your website (for <<GOW>>) by accident looking for information on the wartime Finland Nagants. Your publication is quote top-notch. I read the entire thing in nearly one sitting and shared it with several of my friends, who are also shooters. Besides "kudos" for such good work, I'd like to ask three things:
1. Regarding suppressors in Finland. Are these devices able to be purchased by anyone? As you know, suppressors are heavily controlled in the USA and it is nearly impossible for individuals who are not police or military to purchase them.
2. If you need any assistance of any kind on American English vernacular or slang, please consider me a resource, if you need such a thing. I noticed several times in your writings where you indicated a question on the meaning of a word in English.
3. Have you ever considered a paper publication? I can tell you that even though something like this would not have "mass appeal" in the US, if you hit the right gun stores and places, you will get a lot of interest in it. What's more, if it is published on "low flash" media, such as our Gun Tests magazine, you can recoup the publication costs with limited advertising and subscriber fees. If you are interested in this, I will examine making a sample and mailing it to you.
In any case, it is a pleasure to find your site. I hope to hear from you soon.
Best regards; Izaak (New York City, USA).
Word "kudos" means "tissue/ weave/ texture" in Finnish. "Thank you" is: "kiitos/ kiitokset/ kiitoksia".
1. Anyone is allowed to buy a silencer/suppressor in Finland, or make it. These devices are actually easier to acquire here than a pack of ten cigarettes or a small (1/3 liter) bottle of beer or cider, containing mere 4.5 vol-% of ethanol. Sales of tobacco and alcohol is prohibited to the peoples with age less than 18 years. Younger Finns cannot buy legally even the box of matches or a cigarette lighter, but anybody is able to acquire and possess a suppressor/ silencer/ sound moderator, made for firearms. Use of these devices was prohibited for hunting since 1983 until 1993, but the suppressor ban was revoked by the General Amendment of Game Legislature since 1st August 1993 in favor of hearing protection.
2. Kiitokset for your gentle offering, but it is very hard to ask some assistance from foreign countries. I have not a direct contact to the Web. It takes sometimes a week or two to receive questions to my "typewriter computer" on the diskettes, presumably a month or two to write answers, and again a week or two to send them to the Web or to our Privileged Visitors as a private messages. No resources for "chatting"! A book "AMERICAN SLANG" is many times needed, but I cannot simply afford it, if it is even available here. So I must stick to my self-educated English - or you must try to learn Finnish. (But, please note, I don't write the Standard/ Secretarial Finnish).
3. I've lost my hope for ever! Story of SUOMI KP-31 is edited to become a manuscript of a bilingual book (Finnish & English), but the Finnish text is "too harsh" to become published here and the text in English is too scarce for international publishment. To get one's text published on the book is needed: 1. Luck. 2. Luck. 3. Luck. -----> 99. Knowledge; preferably some kind of "Formal Competence". 100. Skill of writing. (4. to 98. are also Luck. And I'm, unfortunately, born without it).
1312 MMI; PT
NAIL POLISH FOR SEALING PISTOL PRIMERS
Is it O.K. to use clear nail polish to seal pistol primers?
Clear or colored (non-oily) nail polishes are the same nitrocellulose lacquer used to seal primers of firearms cartridges, including small caliber cannon ammo, and in the seam between case mouth and a projectile during (at least) past 100 years. German "Tropenmunition" had the "primer annulus" (a seam between the case head and primer), along with the seam between case mouth and bullet, sealed with the colored nitrocellulose lacquer. Term means "tropical ammo"; i.e. the cartridges allowing huge variations of ambient air pressure, temperature and humidity, without deterioring of hygroscopic nitrocellulose powder.
Since (if not before) the turn of 1900s the lacquer, precisely like nail polish, was adopted for "oil-proof" handgun cartridges. Oil or storage grease is able to deteriorate the priming compound and small powder charge. A thin layer of nitrocellulose lacquer in the seam between a case and primer & bullet is able to make the cartridge hermetically sealed and oil-proof. Nail polish is usually insoluble to mineral oils and soluble only to ether-alcohol, ethyl-acetate or acetone (nail-polish remover). Colored (usually red) nail polish is preferable, because you can see, whether or not the primer annulus/ bullet seal ring is whole and positively air-tight.
1612 MMI; PT
Subsonic .22 hornet loads
Dear mr. kekkonen, with interest i have read your dates about reloading subsonic ammunition. after good results with my Steyr PIV with B&T silencer, i want to 'play' with my .22 hornet, barrel 45 cm and different kemira powders. i have the program quick load, but i do not trust results in subsonic speed. Have you any experience in this caliber, can you help with reloading dates in safe pressure?
thank you very much for your help! best wishes, richard
Caliber .22 Hornet is among the most suitable ones for subsonic handloading. I have not personal experience in this very caliber, but a lot of knowledge. Why distrusting in the QUICKLOAD program?! It may give some incorrect information when some "odd sized" cartridges (like Weatherby Magnums) or cartridges (like .243 Winchester) inherently prone to generate Secondary Explosion Effect or at least hangfires, are loaded with reduced charges of rifle powder: A computer is unable to think or deliberate. It's user behind the keyboard or an operator clicking the mouse should carry out all the real brainwork. And I must repeat that .22 Hornet is among the least risky cartridges for "supu" loading, with certain conditions.
Do not use too heavy bullets! Those with weight 40 - 45 grains are O.K. A round-pointed flat-based bullet, weighing 50 grains may be still short enough to become stabilized in it's flight by rotational rate of .22 Hornet rifling. If you are able to acquire swaged or cast lead alloy bullets, use them for supu (subsonic) loads. Recommended weight is again 40 to 45 grains. A cast bullet LYMAN N:o 225415 is about the ideal projectile for this very purpose. With the gas-check, it weighs usually slightly less than 50 grains. Suggested overall length of Hornet cartridge is 1.65 inches (42 millimeters) or slightly shorter (if needed) with this bullet.
Your powders may be of some "matured vintage", because Finnish KEMIRA Oy has not been the "mother company" of VihtaVuori powder plant since 1st January 1997. VihtaVuori is today a part of Fenno-Scandian explosives consortion, NEXPLO AB. For the supu loads with lead alloy or jacketed bullets are any of powders in series N300 suitable. "Cream of the cream" are powders N310 and N330. (Last mentioned is especially good for short-barreled rifles, equipped with a suppressor/ silencer). Suggested starting load for any & all recommended bullets is 2.0 grains (0.13 gram) with any kind of powder in series N300. You should "fine tune" your powder charge yourself. Please, note! Read the words "STARTING LOAD" literally. When you are developing the subsonic load for a .22 Hornet cartridge, the correct powder charge (giving truly subsonic bullet velocity and a good accuracy) may be some 1.8 or 1.9 grain of powder, but if needed, you may add the charge with 0.1 grain increments until the "whiplash noise" of transsonic or supersonic bullet is audible. Then you should reduce the charge one or two tenths of a grain.
Do not try to develope subsonic Hornet loads with ANY rifle powder, although the case volume is small. Reduced charges of rifle powders (even the quickly burning N110, which is good for full-power Hornet loads) shall not generate high enough chamber pressure for regular combustion. Surfaces of rifle powder kernels are usually coated with chemicals (deterrents), which shall reduce flammability of powder, and combustion of it until the coated surfaces of the kernels are burned through. Reduced charge shall usually become extinguished, leaving the bullet lodged in the bore, but sometimes the powder shall smoulder and generate detonating mixture of gasses.
When this coctail of gasses shall explode by heat and/or pressure inside the rifle chamber and bore, the shooter has a true bomb in his/her hands. It may be hard to believe the disaster what a considerably sub-minimum charge 0.20 gram of shotshell powder is able to generate behind 8 grams bullet in the .308 Winchester rifle: Shooter lost almost his life or at least his left arm. A charge 1.10 gram of the same kind of powder and same kind of bullet was completely safe in use: Five or six consecutive shots gave exactly same muzzle velocity. Accuracy is of "Bench Rest" class. Minimum charge of this very powder VV N320 is 0.40 gram in .308 Win behind the bullet LAPUA S374, but two foolhardy Finnish lads didn't believe it without a painful experience. Another almost lost his eyesight. He loaded 0.20 gram of N320 behind a jacketed D-46 bullet with weight 11 grams, while minimum charge of powder N320 is ca. 0.50 gram!
Behind the cast and lubricated lead alloy bullet, weighing ca. 6 grams (LEE 311-93-1R sized to diameter .309") the 0.20 gram charge of N320 was completely safe, subsonic and able to generate a very good accuracy. That's why I recommend use of cast bullets for the subsonic loads, if they are available, but the lubricated jacketed bullets are a fair substitute of them.
1712 MMI; PT
.303 SAVAGE CARTRIDGES
A friend of mine has a .303 Savage that he has had for years. He uses the gun for deer hunting which he has shot many. The problem is he now only has nine cartridges left. Would you know of any place in Canada that would still be selling this cartridge?
Thank You, Clare, Canada
Whe have not received the catalogs or price lists of available firearms & ammo or handloading components even from the Finnish manufacturers or distributors during past year 2001. Therefore we are unable to answer the questions "from where I can get....?" even on our GOW/Finnish site. This is a fate of the publishers of non-commercial website as long as the Internet is thought as an amusement channel and not a real media, like the printed books or periodical magazines.
On the more than sixteen years old book "CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD 5th EDITITON" by FRANK C. BARNES is a grim prophecy that: ".303 Savage ... is rapidly becoming obsolete". Your friend should start handloading of the cartridges, if the .303 Savage cases are still available, but the more probable alternative is a re-barreling of the rifle and most probable fate of it is to use it as a wall-hanger. I didn't found the .303 Savage cases even from the Australian BERTRAM catalog, and I don't know, whether the action of your friend's rifle is able to feed .303 British cartridges. If it is, the simple re-chambering of existing barrel may be needed.
2012 MMI; PT
I found your website for the second time and this time I could spend some of my time to look it over. Great site but what is the money some speak of for? In the U.S. we can buy postal Int. money oreders that are converted and delivered to your door in Finnish Marks.
Do you know much about the .50 cal. Russian Udar revolver. I had a contact in Russia that disappeared and a fellow in Turkey thinks there is a border market there for them. I know they were developed from 32 gauge shotgun shells originally but now there is also what looks like short .50 cartridges. I am asking as I collect and shoot revolvers, I am now in gunsmith school and would not mind buying one if they ever hit the open market.
Merry Christmas and Gods'speed, Bob (Minnesota, USA)
PS: We just got 16 inches of snow.
We've got 4 to 6 inches of snow here in Eastern Finland. In Southern Finland was a foot of snow, at best, already before X-mas, but the lawns are green once again there. (In the region of Helsinki a "White Christmas" is not a rule but rather an exception. On the other hand: I don't recall any snowless X-mas in my home area, North Carelia, since early 1950s).
Finnish Mark may be history like Swedish "Riks Daler" when you are able to read this message. Since 1st January 2002 the official currency in Finland and eleven other member countries of European Union is the EURO. (I call it as "ECU" or "EQU"). The annual fee of GOW visitors is 10 Euros or U.S. $ 10:00: An alm to the poor beggar rather than the real wages to a scientist and historician. The most sure way to pay "debt of honour" is still to post/mail the bill/banknote to our P.O. BOX 525, 80161 JOENSUU, FINLAND, (EUROPE). Please note: It is impossible to exchance national currency of 12 European Union countries since 1st January 2002 in the banks in Finland. Finnish Mark is possible to use here until the end of February 2002. Paper money of non-EU countries (including Canadian, Australian and U.S. dollars or Crowns of Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Esthonia are still exchanceable currency. So are also Pounds of U.K.)
Russian UDAR revolver is unknown to me, but the 32-gauge brass shotshells were more familiar. I had a couple of sample shells when I found from the tables of German Waffengesetz (Firearms Act) that a 32-gauge shotshell trimmed to length 44 millimeters is a suitable case for 12.17 x 44 R Swedish Remington rifle. But, alas, Russian (then still Soviet-Russian) brass cases had entirely different diameter, when compared with German tables and Italian FIOCCHI paper cases for 32 gauge: They were too thin, designed presumably for the "chamberless" 32 gauge shotguns. The case head was precisely fit for head recess of Remington rifle, but the case itself was more than a millimeter too thin.
Shortened 32 gauge brass cases were presumably used in prototypes of Udar revolvers, but if the caliber is actually .50, the cartridge should be loaded into cases with considerably bigger outer diameter. Bullet diameter of 12.17 mm Swedish Remington rifle is ½ inches (12.70 mm) and I can recall that outside diameter of Soviet-Russian 32-gauge brass case was also about 12.7 millimeters.
1812 MMI; PT
SNEAK OR NOT?
Thanks for your explanation of "sneaks". In the US the most common explanation is that they were made in violation of a Finn-Russo non-production treaty, hence the name "sneak". To me, it is hard to believe that those late 1960s - early 1970s rifles were in violation of anything, since Finland had been making guns for years since WWII. I happen to have a 1945-dated M-39 in new condition. In your opinion, would this be considered a true "sneak" rifle since the Finn-Russo treaty was probably still in effect when it was made?
The true Sneak M-39 rifles were made actually since the "Spring of Prague" 1968, when the occupation of Soviet-Russia was menacing all the countries bordering the East-Block. The menace was realized in the Czecho-Slovakia only, but Finland was also alert and High Brass of our army knew that a sniper, even with a non-scoped (but selected) rifle is able to kill an enemy fighter with 3 to 5 shots, while an average conscript, armed with an assault rifle, needs ca. 20.000 rounds of cartridges for one sure kill. (Statistics from early years of Viet-Nam conflict. Later there were needed ca. 40.000 rounds of cartridges to kill a single Viet-Cong warrior. Snipers needed 1.33 cartridges per a kill with their scoped rifles).
Your Model-39 "Ukko-Pekka" rifle is definitely not a Sneak Rifle: It is made in early year 1945, when Finnish Army fought our Shameful War against Germans in Finnish Lapland "za Stalina; za Soyuzhkogo Soyuza" ("pro Stalin; pro Soviet Union"). This most ashameable era on the written history of Finland started in the early October 1944 and it ended in 27th April 1945. Finnish VKT was allowed to produce service firearms until the end of April 1945. Finn-Russo non-production treaty was not YET concluded in 1945. It is still a secret, but I presume that it is signed in 1947, along with Peace "Treaty" in Paris. Production of Sneak Rifles was started ca. 21 years after submission to these lousy dictated terms of "cease fire". The actual peace between Finland and Russia is not yet concluded. The peace treaty of Hamina was concluded in 1809 between Imperial Russia and Kingdom of Sweden.
1612 MMI; PT
.300 WEATHERBY MAGNUM DATA
Pete, please help! I am about to purchase a Sako 75 in .300 Weatherby Magnum. I intend to reload this cartridge, as I am new to reloading I require some help from you. I am planning on using 180 grain Nosler Partition or Partition Gold projectiles. Would you please provide me with some reloading data for this cartridge. As I am new to reloading I am going to use full length Redding dies and press.
Can you also advise on what the overall max-min length of a loaded case including the projectile should be as I am not sure how far the bullet should be seated in the case. I am very concerned about this aspect as I have read many articles of live bullets being jammed in actions as a result of incorrect bullet depth seating. Is there a method of checking this to ensure it is done properly.
As I mentioned before, I believe if I have the overall length of a loaded case this would help me.
Many thanks, Harry
I don't know, what kind of powder you have available or acquired for reloading. You should seek loading data from some handbook, manual or leaflet published by powder or bullet manufacturers. Please, don't use charges of VERY quickly burning powder with open-based NOSLER bullets. There are met dangerous incidents known in German as "Gaspolster Effect" or "riveting" (expansion) of the bullet base jacket, by intrusion of powder gas between a rear core and jacket of Partition bullet. .300 Weatherby cartridges bulleted with Partition bullets should be charged with some rather slowly burning kind of powder designed for the Magnum rifle cartridges.
There are actually met also problems because of variable lengths of "leades"/"throats" between chamber and bore of some Magnum caliber rifles (not only Weatherby .300s). In Finland some military rifles with Mosin-Nagant M-1891 action, (possessed by members of our Civil Guards) were somewhat troublesome in use after adoptment of bullet LAPUA D-166; a long boat-tailed bullet for long-range machine gun shooting, weight 200 grains. Sometimes it was needed to shut the rifle bolt by kicking or beating the bolt handle with a wooden mallet, when the cartridges were loaded to the usual (almost maximum allowed) overall length, without needed re-adjustment of bullet's seating depth.
Some Guardsmen (active competition shooters) were acquired custom-made target shooting barrels for their privately owned rifles, just for getting some extra points in peace-time competitions. Those barrels had a shortened conical "throat" between the bore and cartridge chamber and sometimes "Yankee rifling" (with a groove diameter .308 inches), while "Russian rifling" (actually Belgian) might have as large as .315 inches groove diameter even in the factory-new bores, and the original chamber throats of Mosin-Nagants were dimensioned for use of the blunt-pointed bullets with a long cylindrical shank. Bullet D-166 was designed to fit perfectly to the Mosin-Nagant chamber throat, to generate best available accuracy from M-N rifles but especially from MAXIM machine guns (up to range ca. 5 kilometers - depending on the direction of wind).
You can understand easily that when it was needed to remove a undischarged cartridge from the chamber of a non-standard rifle barrel, there was a bullet stuck into it's throat and a majority of the powder charge was sprayed in magazine of the rifle. Guardsmen learnt soon to adjust the overall length of their (handloaded) competition shooting cartridges according to the length of their rifle chambers with shortened throat, but the true troubles were met during Russo-Finnish Winter War 1939 - 40. Members of the Civil Guard took - of course - their privately owned rifles with them to the front. If there were issued the factory-loaded Finnish cartridges with pointed light Spitzer bullets or (especially) captured Russian cartridges with the bullets similar in weight and shape, but diameter mere .307 inches, there were no difficulties. Although the Russian "L-pulya obr. 1908/-10 g.g." wasn't any "Match Grade" projectile, it was fit for all firearms chambered for 7.62 mm x 54R Mosin-Nagant cartridges, including those with "Yankee rifled" bore.
If there were issued nothing but cartridges with bullet D-166, many Civil Guard members sang the sad song: "Kusessa Ollaan" (= "We're in Difficulties"), and they accepted captured Soviet-Russian rifles for their use. A fine target practice rifle isn't necessarily a good fighting rifle, except for the use in hands of a highly skilled sniper. "Positive reliability of the service firearms is a most needed characteristic of weaponry issued to the men in the Theatres of War" said ADOLPH HITLER; also a veteran of First World War trenches: He knew the primary needs of first-row fighters.
In 1940, when the mass-production of Finnish rifle Model 1939 was actually started, the basic dimensions of cartridge chamber, it's throat/leade and the groove diameters were strictly similar to the dimensions of original Russo-Belgian Mosin-Nagant Model 1891 rifle. Allowances of dimensions were somewhat reduced, because technology of barrel manufacture was improved during the past half of a century. Soviet-Russians adopted similar ways for barrel production already in 1930. Accuracy of their selected sniping rifles was amazing up to 800 meters. Many Finnish-made state-owned service rifles were later "free-bored". Id est: The chamber throat was reamed long and wide enough to allow easy feed of cartridges with all kinds of 7.62 mm bullets. There were tried at least three throat lengths in the bores of Finnish Army and Civil Guards rifles before return to original Mosin & Nagant dimensioning of the service rifle chambers. "Vanha konsti on parempi kuin pussillinen uusia", says a Finnish proverb: "Tried trick is better than a bag full of new means".
That's all from the war history this time. When the extra-long bullet LAPUA D-166 became available to reloaders in about 1937 and owners of the Civil Guards rifles Model 1928-30 met some troubles (because of the custom-made barrels with too short throats of the cartridge chambers), there were issued instructions for the correct adjustment of somewhat shortened overall length of a cartridge:
"At first, measure the length of the rifle bore and chamber, plus recess of the breech-bolt. The striker must be cocked - of course. Measurement must be done with a brass or mild steel rod with diameter at least 6.5 millimeters. The head of the rod must be lathe-turned at right angles and smooth, without raises or recesses. Cut a groove on the side of a rod precisely on the level of rifle muzzle. Then push a loose bullet through a chamber into the throat of a chamber so that it just sticks in it but is not yet engraved to the rifling fields. Then push a measuring rod to the rifle bore (again from the muzzle end, of course) until it touch gently a point of the bullet. Now cut another groove on the side or around the measuring rod, again on the level of the rifle muzzle. The distance between these marking grooves is a maximum allowed cartridge overall length of a cartridge for your rifle with a bullet you have used for cartridge length measurement".
If your .300 Weatherby Magnum rifle has a "freebored" throat between the bore and chamber, you may use at least all the factory loads without a hitch, and adjust the overall length of your reloaded cartridges somewhat longer than the factory loads has - if they have bullet point shape and radius similar to the factory-loaded cartridges. It is easy to measure exclusive maximum overall lengtht of cartridge fit for your rifle and adjust the length of your reloads somewhat shorter, with allowance about .1 to .3 millimeter. Gains of this method are reduced throat erosion, somewhat additional powder space in the cartridge and improved shooting accuracy.
Do not, however, exceed Maximum Charges recommended by reloading data manuals. Especially the NOSLER PARTITION bullets may generate nasty surprises if shot with too high/ too rapidly increasing chamber pressure. Some solid-based bullet are recommended for inexperienced reloader, but if you have a common sense, you can use Partition bullets too. "Terminal ballistics" of them in the big-game animals is very good, especially when 180 grains Partition bullet hits with a high velocity. It has almost explosive shocking power combined with a deep penetration.
I am unable to tell the exact overall length of YOUR reloaded cartridges. You should to find out it yourself, but the "rod measurement" method is easy to carry out. Please note: If your cartridges are too long to the magazine of your rifle, you should to seat the bullets deep enough to assure reliable feed from magazine. Maximum overall length of cartridge, mentioned on some handbooks is 90.4 millimeters and usual C.O.L. is 90.3 mm (3.555 inches).
1112 MMI; PT
I HAVE A RIFLE THAT SHOOTS WEATHERBY .300 MAG AMMO. I WAS TOLD BY WEATHERBYS HISTORIAN THAT IT IS NOT A TRUE WEATHERBY. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TELL ME MORE ABOUT IT. IT HAS AN AUSTRIAN CITY STAMPED ON THE BARREL AND THE SERIAL NUMBER IS 216513 IF THAT HELPS. MODEL IS 602. ANY INFO WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.
True Weatherby rifles are made in several countries, including Austria, Japan and Finland (at least barrels, actions or barreled actions, if not the stocks too). I don't know whether all the rifles are assembled and finished in California, or elsewhere. "LAUFSTAHL 3" is German, meaning "barrel steel number 3". If the Austrian city stamped on the barrel is STEYR, your rifle is of top quality. Just the FERLACH is still more famous factory of (mostly handmade) Austrian rifles.
1112 MMI; PT
PHOTO OF DeLISLE STYLE CARBINE
Dear Mr. Kekkonen: I am writing an article on the splendid DeLisle carbine for an American magazine, and I need accompanying photos. Would it be possible for me to use the fine photos on your site of your friend Marko Ruotsalainen firing the silenced carbine. I'm aware that it's silenced in the DeLisle STYLE, and not a DeLisle. That fact would be specified in the caption, and you would get credit for the photo in the article. I thank you for your time, and I would greatly appreciate your cooperation.
Michael, California, USA
The copyright of this photograph is in possession of our "telegraph operator" J. Hartikka. He has allowed to publish it for educational (pro-gun use, but DEFINITELY NOT for anti-gun) purposes. Design of the original silencer unit of an original DeLisle carbine was somewhat overly-complicated, but efficient, that nobody can deny. Silencer design of a carbine built by Marko Ruotsalainen is an extra-long variation of BR-TUOTE suppressor, with lengthened gas expansion chamber surrounding carbine barrel.
The carbine was assembled without knowledge on the fact that re-barreling of Mosin-Nagant Model 1891 is unnecessary. Original 7.62 x 54R cartridges are possible (and easy) to handload with reduced charges to generate a subsonic bullet velocity. Bullet weight may be up to 200 grains. Modifications of magazine and action at all are unnecessary. Needed is just to cut the original barrel to the length 15 or 16 inches and turn the thread on it's muzzle for mounting of a silencer, and shorten also the wooden forearm. I do'n think that the vented barrel (like that of DeLisle carbine) is needed at all, because of the large free volume in the full-length 7.62 x 54R Mosin-Nagant cartridge. Chamber and bore pressures are low.
(Problem is actually to find a powder flammable enough to burn cleanly and consistently in the less than 1000 atmospheres maximum chamber pressure. There are about a dozen of handgun/ shotshell powders available to Western handloaders and at least another dozen of unavailable blank-cartridge powders flammable enough for subsonic handloads).
Original Mosin-Nagant barrel has the rifling twist steep enough (240 millimeters) for gyro-stabilizing of a bullet, weighing 200 grains or a flat-based roundnosed bullet with weight up to 220 grains (preferably the cast lead alloy projectile, sized to the groove diameter of a bore). Bullet weight is therefore similar to that of .45 ACP cartridge used in DeLisle carbine, and although the caliber is mere 7.62 mm, the terminal ballistic effect is sufficient: A long slender marginally stable bullet shall capsize after the hit, especially if it's tip is "doctored" to become somewhat asymmetric like the point of a hypodermic needle. Soft-pointed rifle bullets are usually unable to mushroom at subsonic striking velocity, but the sharp-pointed bullet (FMJ) with an asymmetric tip shall make some interesting effects inside the living soft tissue. As a sickle cut the straws more efficiently than a hammer, the sharpened tip of rapidly yawing bullet cut blood vessels and nerves.
The very best silencer jacket material is mild steel, because it is easy to fix the front and rear sight on the silencer jacket by welding (just like sights of original DeLisle carbine). One can also weld on the silencer jacket a mounting base of optical or opto-electrical sight, mount of the fore-end, a sling swivel, mounting base of a LASER aiming device - and a mounting rail of a bayonet. (Last mentioned detail is a joke, of course, but a rail for LASER isn't). The erected rear sight of Mosin-Nagant rifle may be used as a sight of silenced carbine, and needed is just a front sight welded or brazed/ soldered on the silencer jacket.
1312 MMI; PT
UNKNOWN SIDE-BY-SIDE SHOTGUN
My name is Keith and I sent you an e-mail reference the side by side shotgun that I needed help with, and I was wondering if you got the message? If not please let me know and I will send it again.
I can remember your message, but it is very hard to find answer. My available literature is limited; especially that about civilian shotguns. My time is also limited. Sorry.
1312 MMI; PT
Help! I need info. on the 1927 Breda , Bolt Action Rifle. I think it is military, because of adj. sights. Righthand bolt, crest of Greece, on top of reciever? No caliber is stamped! I think it's 7.62.54, not sure. Also, there are some markings on the left side , infront of reciever, (appears to be a horse, reared up, with a rider on the horse). 5 shot mag, I think, internal, not ext. I need a couple of bolt parts, I think, and some background. Rectangular cross, on top of reciever. The only markings, I understand are 1927 BREDA. Help if you can, Please!
The rifle is made by Société Anonyme ERNESTO BREDA of Brescia (Italy) in 1927, for export. Caliber is definitely not 7.62 x 54R but if the case is rimmed it may be 8 x 50R Austrian Mannlicher, used also in Greece. If so, the rifle (or carbine?) is a variant of Mannlicher-Schoenauer model 1903, caliber usually rimless 6.5 x 54 mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer, but some Creek units (cavalry?) had the 8 x 50R shoulder arms too. Action of M-S is easy to identify by it's magazine with a rotating feeder. Missing bolt parts may be difficult to find today, if Breda manufacture has not those spare parts in it's stock. This Italian firearms plant is still alive, but it is today known mainly as a manufacturer of shotguns. Before active search of needed bolt parts you must find out caliber of your rifle or carbine.
PS. Classes of service shoulder arms are:
Carbine...............barrel length 22 inches or less
Short rifle...........barrel length 23 to 25 inches
Rifle.................barrel length 26 inches or more
Example given: German Mauser rifle Model 98k is not a "Karabiner" but a short rifle. Letter "k" means "kurz" = short. Designation "K98k" is sometimes seen, but it is incorrect. Designation "K98" is correct, meaning a Karabiner, with barrel length less than 60 centimeters. Note the capitel "K" before model marking. A short Mauser rifle 98k has a barrel length 61 cm (24 inches). Note the letter "k". Substantives of German are written with capitels, while adjectives with "small" letters.
1212 MMI; PT
PRIMING OF 20 x 110 mm HISPANO CARTRIDGES
Hello, I happened upon your site quite by accident. It's excellent! Question. I have a quantity 20 x 110 mm Hispano cases all new but they are Berdan configured. I cannot find a supplier of these primers is it possible to use .50 BMG with a packer beneath the primer then crimp. These cases are in very good condition and I thought I could machine out the "tit" and drill another hole in place off. Have you any thoughts on this matter.
My problem is that I am unable to find dimensions of Berdan primers of your Hispano cases and actually not the all dimensions (including allowances) of .50 BMG Boxer primers. Diameter of them is 8.03 millimeters but length of them is unknown to me. Your idea to drill a central vent hole and use a sleeve (or even a "battery cup" like that of a shotshell primer) is O.K. If you can acquire inexpensive .50 BMG cases, you may use heads of them as the battery cups of Hispano cases. Turn the heads of .50 BMG cases to diameter of extractor groove and drill & ream the holes through heads of Hispano cases to the same diameter. You may braze the battery cups to the 20 x 110 cases with a silver alloy solder. If you'll shoot the Hispano cartridges, you shoud use powder charges generating about half from the pressure of normal factory loads, because the brazing shall anneal metal of the case head soft.
1312 MMI; PT
I cannot translate language on the site. Can you help or send any information in English about this weapon?
Thank you; Duke.
AKKA-Mauser is a Finnish pet-name of Mauser pistol Model 1914 (caliber 7.65 x 17 mm Browning or .32 ACP), a well-known and popular pocket-sized handgun in Finland during the era our actual independence (since 16th May 1918, until 19th September 1944). Pet-name means "Old Woman Mauser". The bigger military Mauser pistols, shooting 7.63 x 25 mm or 9 x 19 mm Luger ammo were and are known as "UKKO-Mausers" in Finland. This pet-name means "Old Man Mauser" in English, but a 7.63 mm pistol model C-96 is also known as "TUHANNEN METRIN Mauser", because it's rear sight is graduated for shooting to thousand meters.
I have translated the German user's & maintenance manual (printed in 1916) of C-96 to somewhat archaic Finnish in series "Tekniikkaa ja historiaa", finished in 7th July MMI. Many visitors of GOW are wished translation of it also to English, but I have no more enough (life)time for the stint, lasting presumably five or six months. There is also third Mauser pistol known in Finland, called as "NEITI-Mauser", technically similar to "Akka-Mauser", but smaller in size and chambered for 6.35 mm Browning (.25 ACP) cartridges. It is known as Model 1910. Finnish pet-name "neiti" means a mid-teenager girl or a non-married female person, age less than 24 years. More older un-married lady was a "VANHAPIIKA", a spinster in archaic Finnish.
"VANHAPIIKA-Mauser" was never produced in quantity and it is unknown in Finland: Model 1909, mechanically about similar to "Neiti" and "Akka", but chambered for 9 x 19 mm Luger cartridge, which was too powerful for a blowback-action pistol designed by a contemporary technology. "Neiti" and "Akka" pistols were chambered for Browning cartridges, designed purposely for use in blow-back pistols. Therefore they were much more successful handguns than was the original hard-kicking "spinster aunt of a family"; Model 1909.
I possessed an "Akka-Mauser" in mid-1970s and found it to be a very accurate pistol, but I met some troubles with communists in my contemporary work place. I found that the magazine capacity of my old "Akka" pistol was insufficient. So I bought a 9 x 19 mm Browning Hi-Power pistol with 13 + 1 rounds of cartridge capacity and 13 cartridges in the spare clip. So I sold the Mauser away. I had no more than one magazine (capacity 8 cartridges) for it. At least twenty Red Animals were ready to assault against me - but they knew that I had 27 rounds of 9 x 19 mm "DumDummed" submachine gun ammo always ready for use against those most disgusting foes of the human beings, and I had never any inhibition to open the fire with intention to shoot "laaki ya vainaya" (id est: "One shot for a sure kill").
You may presumably acquire some literature about Mauser Model 1910 and 1914 pistols even in English. There were also variants known as 1910/34 and 7.65 mm Model 1934, but they were technically still models "Neiti-Mauser" and "Akka-Mauser", with just recontoured grips and some other superficial alterations. Basic designs of Austrian JOSEF NICKL (1909 - 34) were in production until ca. 1939, when the outside-hammered single & double-action model HSc was ready for production. Mauser models HS (a - c) are uncommon in Finland. Therefore they have no pet-names in Finnish.
1312 MMI; PT
SUBSONIC .44 MAGNUM LOADS FOR RIFLES
To many questions: The max. load is 7,0 grs of VihtaVuori N310 which shall produce velocity of 977 fps. Starting load is about 5,5 grains (856 fps). C.O.L. (Cartridge Overall Length) is 1,61" or 40,9 mm. Bullet weight 250 grains. Heavier projectiles are not recommended if the rifling twist is 20 or more inches.
These velocity readings are from 8 inch barrel. 20" barrel should give slightly more velocity, but 24" barrel will give slower velocity. That is because there is friction between barrel and bullet, especially unlubricated jacketed projectile.
MPP (Markus; "MASTER Ballistician of GOW")
Ps. I have tried to send this message to you personally, but I guess that you didn't get it because of some kind (SMTP server) failure. MPP
.44 MAGNUM AND POWDER VV N310
Regarding your Q & A page with a question regarding the .44 Mag and 300 grs bullets loaded with N310, please forward this message. I have done a lot of shooting with a .44 Magnum rifle with a 12" barrel and silencer, using LEE's 430-310 RF bullet cast from wheelweights and loaded with N310. It is possible to use up to 7.2 or so grains of this powder for a velocity of 320 m/s in my rifle, pressure is lower than with a max load of N110 and same bullet.
N310 does not give the lowest sound level with this bullet through a silencer, above load give 85 dB measured at my left ear, while a load of 7,5 grains of N330 for same velocity measures out at 83 dB. This means that the N330 load give me half the sound of the N310 load. I presume these loads will be equally noisy without silencer, something like a loud "PLAFF" sound.
Good shooting; Eirik (Norway).
Comment: Powder VihtaVuori N330 was - as far as I know - designed for use in submachine gun cartridges, to burn somewhat "cooler" than the other powders of N300 series. Other powder have energy content 4200 Joules per gram, while N330 contains "calorimetric energy" 4150 J/g. Other powders of N300 series have potassium nitrate as a soluble salt, when the surfaces of powder kernels are done rough (porous) for enhanced flammability, while N330 has some inert water-soluble salt for the purpose. Remnants of the salt (a "gunsmoke") cools down the powder gasses more efficiently than "smoke" of other N300 powders. It generates therefore a reduced volume and pressure of the powder gasses in the rifle muzzle and especially inside the silencer, especially when the barrel length is shortened.
1212 MMI; PT
DISTRIBUTOR OF LAPUA BULLETS
Hello PT I'm from Spain, and need the address (e-mail) of a reloading shop to buy Lapua bullets. We want to test the lightweight 78 grains and 105 grains in .308 but the importer only have 168 grains bullets. Any help?
Thank you; Daniel
I don't know, but I presume that LAPUA CARTRIDGE FACTORY has some information on the distributors of their products in Southern Europe. So ask by E-mail from address email@example.com
As far as I know, there is a large assortment of LAPUA products available in France and Germany, but handloading of the rifle cartridges is not yet common hobby in Spain. It is possible to order loading components from other European Union countries, but I think that availability of them shall become more versatile even in Spain, when demand of components shall increase.
Please, note: I checked list of Lapua bullets, but didn't found .308 caliber bullets weighing 78 grains or 105 grains. Production of aluminium-cored hollowpoint bullet L403 (weight 72 grains) is discontinued several years ago. Available is just a full metal jacketed "ALS" bullet with aluminium core, weight 57 grains, but it is designed for use in 7.62 x 39 mm and 7.62 x 54R Mosin-Nagant rifles (along with .303 British and 7.65 mm Argentinian Mauser).
WARNING! "ALS" bullet may be too thick for use in .308 caliber firearms! Lightest available .308 caliber LAPUA bullet is hollowpoint "HP" G477, weight 100 grains, product number 4HL7224. Production of it is presumably still continuing. Making of the handgun bullets for 7.65 x 17 mm Browning (.32 ACP) and 7.65 x 21 mm Parabellum (.30 Luger) is discontinued years ago in Lapua. Both of them were round-pointed FMJ projectiles, fit for .308 rifle cartridges. Especially the .32 ACP bullet, with weight 75 grains had literally explosive effect to the close range, when propelled with the shotgun powder to muzzle velocity ca. 800 meters per second. (With the rifle powder charge it was easy to exceed 1000 m/s velocity, but the centrifugal force exploded bullet as soon as it emerged from rifle muzzle).
The .30 Luger bullet, with weight 95 grains, was popular for target practice and even for competition shooting to moving targets in .308 Winchester and 7.62 x 54R Mosin-Nagant rifles. It was also suitable for small-game hunting. Modern 100-grainer "HP" G477 bullet is too devastating for hunting of edible or fur-bearing game animals. Most popular still available .308 caliber LAPUA bullet is approaching "medium weight" class: Bullet S374, pointed flatbased FMJ, product number 4HL7003.
1412 MMI; PT
Tip from a visitor
"SUPU" LOADS AND 7.62 x 39 MM WEB PAGES
I would like to let you know about some webpages that deal with subsonic loads in general and subsonic loads for the 7.62 x 39 specifically. If you please, you may find these pages linked off homepage at: http://www.nucleus.com/~cronhelm/index.html . I have added links to the GOW page.
While I thought I was being pretty smart in converting a Mauser 98 rifle to 7.62 x 39 and then loading subsonic rounds, it turns out that there are lots of other guys out there doing similar things. I hope the 7.62 x 39 Page will be the internet source for subsonic and quiet loads for this cartridge.
GERMAN SUBSTITUTE PISTOL "F.L. SELBSTLADER"
Hello PT and thank you for your answers on my rifle and ammo. I have attached a picture of the rifle in this e-mail, so maybe you will know what it is when you see it. I have another question now concerning a pistol. It is a F.L Selbstlader in 7.65 mm Browning with the inscription "D.R.G.M 625263 - 633251" under the "F-L-Selbstlader". On the grip under the trigger housing is inscribed at a later date: "I L M G K X V A K 154". Can you tell me anything about the military use of this gun? Any particular unit it belonged to? It was found in Norway; so I guess it was used by German troops here during WWII. Enclosed is a picture of the pistol and the rifle.
Sincerely; Lars (PV; Norway)
I learnt finally to find pictures from my "reading computer". Your rifle is a sporterized Mosin-Nagant. Both TAMPEREEN ASEPAJA and A. VIITANEN, KAUHAJOKI modified the striker head with addition of ring-shaped rear end. It is known here as a "Swiss-pattern safety", copied from Swiss SCHMIDT-RUBIN military rifles. The striker is set to "SAFE" position by pull of a knob (or ring) slightly rearwards and twisting counter-clockwise. Setting the safety to "FIRE" position is done by pull of the knob (or ring) again rearwards and twist clockwise.
Safety construction of Mosin-Nagant is inconvenient to use. There was usual way to de-cock the rifle by pull of trigger while closing the bolt or by release of a striker slowly after feed of the cartridge into the chamber. Ring-shaped striker end assisted this procedure. Rifle was cocked just before shooting by lift of the bolt-handle up and pushing it down again (especially during the war-time. Most Finnish fighters were simply forgotten existence of the "safety notch" of Mosin-Nagant action. Rifles were always either cocked or de-cocked, even when loaded). "Swiss pattern" cocking ring of the striker allows easy re-cocking of the rifle without any snap of the action, if the trigger is pulled rearwards until the striker is reached it's rearmost position and then released.
Striker of the usual Mosin-Nagant bolt is also possible to de-cock and re-cock, but the shooter must use two fingers: The flange of a striker may slip and cause an accidental shot. I don't know any accidents happen'd, when the rifle strikers are de-/ re-cocked with one finger from the ring-shaped extension of a striker, and the accidents were very rare during the wars 1918 and 1939 - 45, despite of the fact that a firing pin of a de-cocked (loaded) rifle leaned on the primer of a chambered cartridge. Bottoms of the old Berdan primers were rather thick. De-cocked Mosin-Nagant rifle must be dropped from the height of several meters (butt end downwards) until the accidental discharge of a chambered cartridge, but PLEASE NOTE: Modern Boxer primers are usually much more sensitive than those, designed for the original Mosin-Nagant cartridges.
Your 7.65 x 17 mm pistol is made by Waffenfabrik FRIZ LANGENHAN (FL-Selbstlader) already for the First World War, for use of German officers and the non-frontline troops as "Ersatz Pistolen" (substitute handguns). During the 1st World War were issued ca. 67.500 FL pistols to German troops. Many of them were issued still to the German officers during the Second World War. Marking D.R.G.M. may be German State's property stamp. D.R. means "Deutsches Reich". The first line of numbers may mean inventory number of Imperial Germany and second one that of National Socialistic Germany. This is, however, guesswork only. Anybody who has better knowledge is justified and actually obliged to rectify my probable errors.
I L M G K may be a property stamp of First Light Machine Gun Company. (Unless there is not a dot over the capital letter I, it is a Roman number 1, and the stamp says: "Ersten Leichte Maschinen-Gewehr Kompagnie"). X V A K 154 may be translated as "15th Armee Korps 154". XV are again not the letters, but the Roman figures 15. This confusing system of German code stamps was adopted in 1909. I don't know, whether it was still in use during the Second World War, but your Langenhan pistol was stamped already during the First World War.
Please note: If you'll shoot this very pistol, make sure that the screw which keeps the stirrup piece of a breech-bolt is tightened properly. Some shooters lost their eye, when the screw was loosened open after shooting 10 - 30 shots. The bolt holder stirrup was opened, letting the breech-bolt to fly rearwards with considerable velocity - directly towars the aiming eye of shooter. Never lubricate thread of the screw! It is recommended to prevent easy rotation of it with LOCK-TITE or similar glue, or at least with a thin aluminium washer.
1412 MMI; PT
BLANK POWDER IS AVAILABLE
I have located your stories on the net pertaining to sub-velocity loads for full-powered cartridges. I did not read the stories in-full (although I did save them as a favorite) as you do mention a lot of older Finnish/European/Russian powder names and I was hoping to obtain inferences to modern U.S. smokeless powders and reduced loads .30-06 and .308 W (7.62 x 51 mm).
I did note that you lamented the fact that blank powders were actually the best for sub-velocity loads and Finland no longer produced/sold them. Did you know that there is a source for surplus U.S. 30-06 blank powder? It sells for $10(US)/lb. If you are interested, the website is http: //bigskysurplus.com/30-06.htm
Ray from Idaho, U.S.A.
Comment: Many thanks for the tip. Visitors living in U.S.A. are presumably interested. It is difficult to get the "non-standard" powders to Finland because of Red Tape harassing export and import. Finnish pet powder for subsonic handloaders, VihtaVuori N310, was also "born" as a blank-cartridge powder for 7.62 mm Mosin-Nagant rifle cartridges. It's old name "Paukkupanosruuti N14" may be still known in the Army nomenclature. Versatility of it was found already in early 1930s. I presume that the U.S. surplus .30-06 blank powder has about similar burning characteristics to our N310.
Original production method of the really quick-burning propellant (British EXPLOSIVE COMPANY's "E.C. Blank Powder") may be too risky, but it is possible to produce powder with high degree of porosity by the method of Spherical/Ball powder manufacturing process with purposeful "pop-corning" of powder kernels. (Heating the droplets of gelatinized powder, swimming in the water, to so high temperature that the volatile solvent in them is not only evaporized, but it is actually boiled away from the hardening powder kernels).
A powder known as HODGDON HP-38 is seemingly made by this method, but it's kernels are rolled flat and porosity of them are therefore reduced considerably. I don't know, whether the Hodgdon's new "TITEWAD" shotshell powder is nothing but HP-38 with non-rolled kernels. If so, it is my invention; "vacuum-cleaned" from GOW. Of course the new powder is not advertised as "a best propellant in the world for subsonic rifle cartridges", but as "a very best powder for the modern Skeet shotshells with reduced shot charges".
All the powder manufacturers and most wholesale distributors of the powders on the Globe hate the idea of reduced charges in rifle cartridges, but they are simply forced to produce and peddle the quickly-burning powders too. And we, "niskurit ja hullut miehet" ("refractory fool men" in Finnish), are distributing handloading data for special purposes of them.
1812 MMI; PT
ADAPTER FOR 7.62 MM TOKAREV WITH HEAVY BULLETS
First off I am a 07 FFL and 02 SOT payer here in the USA licensed to manufacture suppressors. My question is in regards to the 7.62 x 25 mm Tokarev cartridge using 180 - 200 gr. bullets and suppressors. My first prototype I will probably use an insert chamber adapter so I can use the cartridge in a 7.62 x 51 (.308 Winchester) Ishapore Enfield, with a ported barrel/ integral silencer. Further host weapons will probably be short action type Mauser bolt action rifles, unless you can recommend a better host.
I would like to know ideally what rate of twist barrel would be best with a 200 gr subsonic bullet? And what type of gun powder would you recommend? I believe because the host case is so small, this should be a very efficient cartridge to fire in a suppressed weapon.
Sincerely, W. M.
I wonder, why you are planning fumble with a chamber adapter for 7.62 mm Tokarev cartridges? You can load .308 Winchester cartridges easily to subsonic velocity with the bullets weighing 180 to 200 grains and at least 20 shotshell/handgun powders from the top of "Burning Rate of Powders" tables, published on almost all of the reloading manuals or handbooks. The chamber adapter is a plague, an obsolete makeshift relic from bygone years - especially in rifles with Mauser action: Feed of cartridges from the magazine is about mandatory in majority of Mauser actions, due to construction of the Mauser's "positive extractor". Case head diameter of 7.62 mm Tokarev cartridge is 10 millimeters, while diameter of .308 Winchester (and 7.9 mm Mauser) cartridge is mere 12 mm.
Your host case is still too big (fat-headed) for the adapter. Wall thickness of adapter is mere ONE millimeter. It is practically impossible to turn deep enough extractor groove around it's head-end. The more suitable cartridges for adapters of .308 Winchester rifles are .30 M1 Carbine and .32 ACP, but you must handload them too. Why bother, because you may handload subsonic .308 Winchester cartridges with the same effort and enjoy the "modern conveniences" like reliable feed from the standard magazines of Enfield and Mauser rifles. I have also some knowledge about the twists of rifling: A .308 bullet with a weight 200 grains may need as steep twist as 9½ inches to become stable in flight, especially if it is very long, hollow-pointed and boat-tailed. (The Mosin-Nagant and Kalashnikov rifles and variants of them are common in Finland. Rifling twist of them is 240 millimeters, 9.45 inches. That's why my exact knowledge). If the bullet's point is about hemispherical and the projectile is flat-based, rifling twist 10 inches may be able to stabilize it in the flight.
Some blunt-pointed flat-based (gas checked) cast bullets with a true weight 200 grains are shot successfully even from the "between-betwixt" rifling of SAKO rifles with the twist 11 inches, but I never recommend the jacketed bullets heavier than 180 grains for them. The bullet must be flat-based and round-pointed; as short in length as possible. Not the excessive WEIGHT but an excessive LENGTH makes the bullet unstable in it's flight, when the rotational rate is too low. Apropos: The ideal rifling twist of .308 caliber bores designed for the suppressed rifles is seven or at most eight inches. Some barrelsmiths yields already the custom barrels with 7½ inch twist for .308 caliber bullets, able to stabilize jacketed lead-cored bullets six times their diameter (1.85 inch) in length, at subsonic velocity, up to the range one mile or still more.
The original rifling twist of .308 Winchester rifle was and still is in the rifles of (too) many manufacturers 12 inches; good for the bullets weighing 150 grains, shot with full-power charges, but for the subsonic charges I don't recommend the bullet weight more than 123 grains for users of suppressed rifles with 12 inches twist. (A well-placed hit of 123-grainer bullet is also more lethal than ten or even more misses or poor hits with projectiles weighing 200 or 220 grains). It is always better to be safe than sorry: An unstable bullet may wreck the suppressor/ silencer. (We also almost lost our chronograph in 1992 test-session and our ballistician Markus actually wrecked his first CHRONY by the hit of unstabilized bullet). Accuracy of it is very poor. Please, forget the idea of adapter! Welcome the club of "supu-loaders"! Handloading data for .308 Winchester subsonic loads is plentily available on our GOW/Universal site.
2111 MMI; PT
RE: DUMOULIN RIFLE, A TREASURE!
Dear Sir: Thank you for answering my questions about the gun. Do you have any idea the value of the gun? I am not really a collector. I like to have guns to shoot, even though this one shoots really well, 1 1/4" groups with factory ammo. Should I be shooting it or leave it in the safe? Do you know of anyone that might be interested in it.
You may continue shooting until the groups shot from your rifle (always the same ammo used) shall increase close to 2". Then is the time to sell it away to some non-shooting collector of European hunting rifles. A crude estimation of price is about USD 800:00, but I am unable to predestinate the worth of your rifle after about 10.000 more shots and decade(s) of it's active life. Unfortunately, I have no connects to the firearms dealers - even in Finland. Many of them hate me and our GOW site like a Pestilence, Anthrax or the Smallpox, because we are always the protagonists of the private gun-owners; here there and everywhere.
1911 MMI; PT.
VOLTER ASPLUND - A FINNISH MASTER BALLISTICIAN
(WARNING! This story may be shocking for some visitors).
Hello, I found mention of Volter Asplund on your webpage http://guns.connect.fi/gow/kysvast8.html . But I cannot read Finnish! I had a Finnish friend tell me a bit about what it says, but do you know more? I am Volter's decendant (my mother is an Asplund). I heard that there are some books written about him? Could you tell me more? Thank you.
Jeremy, MI, USA
There are several books printed in Finland/Finnish mentioning VOLTER ASPLUND; especially his dramatic death in 20th April 1932. He was poisoned by JENNY MIRYAM ANTTILA, a female collaborator of Soviet agent known as "Mr. STENIY" or "STEN"*). I have in my hands just a history of Soviet espionage in Finland "MIEHET PIMEASTA - Neuvostovakoilu Suomessa/ MEN FROM THE DARKNESS - Soviet Espionage in Finland" by VEIJO VARJO. Story of V. Asplund starts on this book from the era of First World War, when Asplund ended his studies in the Imperial Alexander's University of Helsinki and he went through secred channels to Germany for military training in the JAEGER BATAILLON N:o 27 (Finnish light infantry bataillon). He made his mark during the fights of Aa river in Baltia and returned to Finland just before our First Independence War, in early January 1918. He became a training officer of machine gunners in the War School of Vimpeli and during the Finnish 1918 War he was a chief of Vaasa's Civil Guard. (Volter Asplund was born in the town Vaasa and he was well-known there).
*) Name or pseudonym Steniy may be a Yiddish family name, while Sten is a common first name of male person in Swedish. On the book "Men From The Darkness" is used name Sten, while on the contemporary newspapers was name Steniy mentioned frequently in it's Finnish form: Stenij.
In 1924 Asplund enlisted to service in Finnish Defence Ministry as a Major. He specialized to technology of firearms and ammo, making many studying tours to the foreign countries. In the early October 1929 he was appointed as a "Technical Manager" of LAPUAN PATRUUNATEHDAS (VPT). His military rank was Lieutenant-Colonel; later a Colonel. He brought "the new innovative spirit" to VPT along with him, starting active development of especially military rifle cartridges and bullets. Volter Asplund enlisted some top-class marksmen like KULLERVO and VILJO LESKINEN to test-shooting laboratory of LAPUA/VPT and trained them to become World Championship-class competition shooters. V. Asplund himself was also a marksman and a hunter who shot many times the forest birds on the wings - with a rifle. Famous (nowadays almost forgotten) Finnish "schuetzen-rifle guru" OTTO LAPPALAINEN was also a good personal friend of Volter Asplund. He made a light "boy's rifle" to seven years old son of Asplund, and taught the boy to become a skilled marksman five or six years before his teen-age.
Other vacation-time hobbies of Asplund were yacht-sailing and fishing. In his official duty he was a "workoholic", who made sometimes the work-days from 8:00 A.M. to 2:00 or 3:00 in the next morning, when some very interesting invention was "yuonessah" (in progress). The Arch Enemy of Finland, Soviet Union, noted soon that something extraordinary was designed in Finland. Shooting accuracy of Finnish competitors was suddenly improved in the matches, shot with the military rifles of each participant country. Especially scores of the shooting competitions between capital cities of Northern European countries were carefully observed by the Soviet espionage organizations.
Russians thought that there must be some secret production method for the bullets and cartridges with "VPT" headstamps. Accuracy of them was really improved, when compared with Soviet 7.62 mm standard cartridges with pointed L-bullets, which were under-sized to the bores and "chamber throats" of Mosin-Nagant rifles. The first products of Lapua Cartridge Factory were cartridges similar to Russian ones: Pointed bullets of them had a very short shank. But since 1929 there were designed some more heavy boat-tailed bullets, giving considerably enhanced accuracy. There were also two or three diameter classes for the bullets, especially those which were sold to handloaders. Contemporary Russian standard bullets had a diameter .307, while groove diameter of Mosin-Nagant rifle bore might be as wide as .315. Most thick Lapua bullets had up to .312 inch diameter, which was sufficient.
Another "grim secrecy" of improved shooting records was adoptment of rifle Model 1928/30 by our Civil Guards, and third one was improved training method of Finnish competition shooters. But the Soviet Military Intelligence Department of Leningrad (a competitor of espionage office residing C/O the Soviet Embassy in Helsinki) was eager to find out "arcane of Lapua-made cartridges". They tried to infiltrate spies (usually Finnish communists; some of them immigrated to Soviet-Russia after the 1918 War) into Lapua Cartridge Factory, but this was a very difficult task, because the Lapua borough (nowadays a town) was and it is still a domicile of the very most patriotic Finnish citizens. (Example given: The most active and aggressive Finnish anti-communist alliance - LAPUAN LIIKE - was established there in 1929). Some would-be spies were driven to the Soviet border across the Finland in black cars, ill-treated, and forced to walk over the border: "Back to the USSR". This procedure is still known as "MUILUTUS" in Finnish. (Pronounced about: "Mooe-loo-toos").
Volter Asplund didn't leave any documents containing "classified information" into the factory, but he kept them in his home, and there was always a loaded pistol on the table of his bedroom. Home of Asplund was only place to get the classified papers. A Soviet agent, known just as "Mr. Steniy" or "Sten" (his true name is still unknown), started to court Miss Jenny M. Anttila, who was a domestic servant, children's nurse and a cook of Asplund's family, living in their home. Volter Asplund was known as a gourmet and J.M. Anttila was an expert of cookery. She was also beloved by Mrs. Asplund and children, accepted as a member of the family; not only a "maid-servant".
Soviet, or at least communist, agent (who spoke Finnish with a barely notable Russian or Swedish accent) charmed inexperienced girl easily. Mr. Steniy was seemingly a very wealthy business-man and still a bachelor. He told about marriage with Jenny, who was approaching the age of spinstership. Steniy told that he needs some papers from home of Volter Asplund. Jenny knew where the four files full of classified documents were kept, when Volter Asplund was at home: In the locked drawer of Asplund's bedroom table. Key of the drawer was, however, in the pocket of Asplund, and there was always a pistol, loaded and the safety set to "FIRE" position, on the bedroom table reach of Asplund. Simple burglary might become a suicide for the burglar. Marksmanship of Volter Asplund was well-known. So was also his readiness to shoot for home-defence: Licence to kill every intruder was given to him from highest Finnish military and political leadership.
The communist agent gave to Jenny a dose of white powder (presumably scopolamine plus some soluble salt of arsenic) and urged her to mix it into the food or drink served to Volter Asplund. He told : "This dope shall make him sick, but he shall recovery after day or two". In the early March or April Sunday evening 1932 Volter, his wife and his brother-in-law played card in the work-room of Asplund's home. Jenny was added some extra salt to the supper served to Volter, who felt him soon thirsty. He asked Jenny to bring him a tankard of beer (home-brewn, of course, because the Prohibition Law was in force until 5th April 1932). Jenny mixed a dose of poison into the beer before serving it. Asplund drank the tankard bottom-up: "Pohjanmaan kautta". He didn't note any extra taste or "bouquet" in the beer.
Later in the evening Asplund told: "Ush, I feel that I'm poisoned!" He went to his bed and fell sleep immediately. In the next morning he was still tired and suffering headache. (Usually he went to bed in about 4:00 A.M., slept 3½ hours and suffered never the headache. There wasn't even the Aspirin tablets in his home). Asplund never recovered completely. His brother-in-law recommended him to get a sick-leave because of the obvious "burn-out symptoms" like exhaustion, headache and diarrhea. In 14th April 1932 the commission of Defence Ministry arrived to the Lapua Cartridge Factory for fire inspection of new buildings. Volter Asplund spent whole work-day along with the commission in the factory. His family was also away from home. Jenny Anttila was there alone. She contacted Mr. Steniy (residing in a lodging-house close to the cartridge factory) by a phone and told that the home of Asplund was now empty. She was already stolen the key of drawer from pocket of Asplund.
Mr. Steniy was known as "a fiancé of Jenny". Therefore he could enter the gate of cartridge factory and home of Asplund without impediment, like a well-known acquaintance of family. Actually, just one member of Asplund's family was ever seen Steniy in his home: A son of Asplund; age 7 years. Jenny told to him that the visitor was her brother. The boy went to his bedroom, because it was his bed-time and he was almost forgotten the visit of the stranger, never seen before or later.
Volter Asplund was lost his usual carefulness because of his illness. Soviet agent found four files of classified documents from the drawer, unlocked with a stolen key, and he took them into his briefcase. He gave another dose of still more strong poison to Jenny, advising her to mix it to the beer served to Volter Asplund still in the same evening. Asplund returned home from the factory as soon as the commission of Defence Ministery was left the factory. He was really exhausted - and thirsty. Jenny served to him again a tankard of poisoned beer. Asplund went to his bed early in the evening and fell to sleep.
Next morning his sickness was got worse. He could not eat a breakfast and vomited green mucus. In the afternoon he fainted. A physician was called. He made a quick diagnosis: "Typhoid fever". There was actually an epidemic of typhus noted on the region of Lapua in early April 1932 (which is unusual season of this very epidemic!). In the morning 16th April a physician diagnosed the pneumonia. In 18th April another physician was called, but he was also unable to save life of Volter Asplund, whose heart was failing. His blood was purple-colored, almost blue, because of insufficient blood circulation and the lack of sufficient oxidizing. It was a sign of approaching end. On the death certificate was written reason of the death: "A reciprocal pneumonia", but the physicians were amazed because of non-typical symptoms: Intestinal pains and diarrhea. Forensic medicinal examination was, however, not yet carried out. Colonel Asplund was buried with all the military ceremonies to his native town Vaasa.
His body was carried away from the gate of factory in 22nd April. His home was empty from family. Jenny Anttila was alone in the house, when Mr. Steniy arrived to his last visit. He returned two files to the drawer of bedroom desk. Jenny locked the drawer and returned it's key to the pocket of Asplund's trousers. Nobody was noted that the key was missing and the files were "borrowed". Two of them were lost forever, but classified material in two returned files was presumably photographed somewhere; probably in the Soviet Embassy in Helsinki during the week between 14th to 22nd April. A week later Jenny received a letter from Mr. Steniy. Just a couple of lines: "I'll go abroad. Somebody else shall come to continue my work there. His name is Eino Behm. Wait for him there, please. Farewell. Sten".
Finnish Searching Central Police (contemporary bureau of investication, Etsiva Keskuspoliisi) got a tip in 20th November 1933 that "death of Volter Asplund was far from natural. He was poisoned by Jenny Anttila". EKP laid a snare for Jenny. An EKP agent called to her by phone and introduced himself as "a member of Soviet espionage pool; a successor of Mr. Steniy. Eino Behm is prevented from coming". Jenny Anttila was moved to Vaasa where she was now a servant of Colonel Heiskanen, commander of Guard's Jaeger Bataillon. Jenny fell into this trap. She told time and place, when and where she could meet her new accomplice. On the place of "rendez-vous" were waiting agents of EKP. Jenny made a full confession during the examinations in 20th December 1933.
Body of Colonel Volter Asplund was exhumed from cemetery of Vaasa 20 months after the funeral, but it was too late to find remnants of poison used for his murder by contemporary forensic medical examination, carried out too late. Jenny Miryam Anttila was found, however, guilty of the 1st class murder and a high treason (mainly by her confession). She was closed behind the bolts and bars, since treasoners and murderers were allowed to become executed during the war-time only, by the Finnish Law.
Soviet-Russians could seemingly derive no advantage from the papers "borrowed" from the drawer of Volter Asplund. They had started their own renovation of 7.62 mm Mosin-Nagant cartridges in 1929 and many new Soviet-Russian bullet designs were ready for mass-production in 1930. Manufacturing of them (and renoved 7.62 mm cartridges in general) was, however, based on the German technology. Of course, the Russians were liquidated an ingenious Finnish ballistician, but here were many others of them left. LAPUA's D-series of 7.62 mm bullets were designed later in 1930s. Some of them are still in production. Design of D bullets is presumably based on concepts of Volter Asplund, but other designers completed his innovations to become products fit for the mass-production.
1511 MMI; PT.
FINNISH "SNEAK M-39" RIFLES
I recently bought a Finnish Mosin Nagant M-39. It looks like it is new. It was made in 1970. That's the date on the barrel shank. Here in the U.S. it is considered a "SNEAKS" M-39. What does "SNEAK" mean? And, how could I find out more information about these late production M-39 rifles.
Thank you; Adam
Word "Sneak" is not Finnish, but these rifles are actually assembled since late 1960s until about 1972 in Finland from the huge piles of spare parts of Mosin-Nagant actions, Finnish-made stocks and the barrels made by VKT (State's Rifle Factory) and SAKO Oy during our Third Independence Struggle/ Continuation War in 1941 - 44. Many unused spare barrels were not yet finished and blackened or even stamped by the manufacturer's logo (S inside a gear or VKT), but they bear the stamp "ASEV 1". Shortened barrels of Russian Mosin-Nagant model 1891 aren't also uncommon in these rifles. Those barrels were, of course, unused, selected, and of highest available quality.
If somebody find a stamp CHATELLERAULT 1892 or REMINGTON 1917 or some Russian markings from his/her Model 1939 rifle's barrel shank along with an ASEV 1 stamp with a date between late 1960s and early 1970s, he/she is not bought a fake! Bore and chamber dimensions of M-39 are exactly similar to those of original Mosin-Nagant M-1891. Therefore the selected M-N barrels are completely serviceable in M-39 rifles, and the existence of Russian, French or American barrel in latest production batch of a Finnish military bolt-action rifle doesn't mean that the M-39 is a fake. Usually it means that the rifle is very accurate. Let's think, why they were assembled almost a decade since official adoptment of assault rifles! For use of the "second class" snipers: For the marksmen not yet qualified to get a (rare) scoped rifle, but who were more skilled shooters than average riflemen, like "Okhotniks" of Russian Red Army during their Great Patriotic War in 1941 - 45.
Almost all of "Sneak M-39s" were assembled by ASEVARIKKO 1 in a town Kuopio; nowadays KUOPION ASEVARIKKO. (Finnish word "asevarikko" means "the arms depot of Finnish Army"). The stamp ASEV 1 means just the depot (not a factory) where the rifles are assembled. Receivers, barrels and breech-bolts may all bear the different serial numbers. Parts of the bolt may also be stamped with variable numbers. They were assembled from the huge pile of spare parts, but - PLEASE NOTE! - they were assembled scrupulously: Too big or too small clearance of a headspace was not allowed. Actually, the allowances of bore, chamber and action dimensions were smaller than those of original rifles M-39 made for use of average riflemen, as these "Sneak Rifles" were made for sniping. If the barrel was chopped from an old Mosin-Nagant M-1891 barrel, it's muzzle end was somewhat too thin. The front sight of rifle M-39 was fitted on it with a thin-walled bushing. Barrels, receivers and steel furnitures of these rifles are blackened to look very beautiful.
The nick-name "Sneak(s) Rifle" is presumably coined in U.S.A., but origin of it may be Finnish "Salapyssy". These rifles were assembled in Finland in very deep secrecy: Our arch-enemy, Soviet Union, did never know about production of them. But when our Army got enough the assault rifles, the "Sneak Rifles" were exported to U.S. and presumably also to Canada. Nobody knows exact quantity of them. In Finland these rifles M-39, made since 1945, are sought-after collecor's items. Almost all of them were exported in the lot of ca. 25 000 rifles (Mosin-Nagants & many of the variants) to the western shore of a Pool (Atlantic Ocean). I've seen just one of them (stamped in 1968) in my neighbourhood. I measured it's headspace clearance and found it completely serviceable. That rifle is seemingly unused - like a vast majority of the "Sneak Rifles" M-39. They were never issued for military exercises, but kept "Para Bellum" (for the real war).
The most valuable collector's item is a sneak rifle with "English shotgun style" buttstock, without a semi-pistol grip of the usual rifle Model 1939. Usual pet-name of rifle M-39 is "UKKO-PEKKA", after the President of Finnish Republic, PEHR EVIND SVINHUFVUD (1861 - 1944), who was a skilled marksman until his death, and a protagonist of shooting hobbies.
1011 MMI; PT
"SILENT WITHOUT A SUPPRESSOR"
Attached is a burning rate chart out of the ADI reloading booklet. ADI make AS-30N. It may be of interest as I notice questions re burning rates mentioning some of the powders listed. If you want a copy of the whole book let me know and I'll send it over. I was lucky enough to spend a few weeks in Finland last year and also had the chance to visit the Sako factory.
Can you give me a starting load using N310 and or AS-30N for a .44 Magnum rifle (H & R) using 300 grain cast projectiles? (Wheel weights). I have a Chronograph and will work a load to give about 960 fps which is quiet enough, unsuppressed for populated areas. Silencers are illegal over here in Australia.
Many thanks for the burning rate chart. Especially interesting is the (new?) AP-30N powder, because of it's burning rate, about similar to NORMA R-1 and our beloved VihtaVuori's N310. A couple of years ago I was in contact with ADI. Needed information was percentage of nitro-glycerol in AS-30N, but I am still in the funny "stalemate" situation: ADI told that HODGDON shall give the sought-after information and HODGDON told that they are not entitled to distribute information about ADI powders: "You should ask it from ADI!". Percentage of nitro-glycerol is essential to know, especially in sub-arctic countries like Finland, Sweden and Norway: Double-based powders shall become weakened in cold temperature. Even the Reduced Charge Detonation may be met, if somebody has designed a subsonic load in warm summer climate or in the indoor conditions, but shoot later the same loads outdoors in chilly climate.
But now to your problem; loading of "silent without a silencer" cartridges. I afraid that your 300-grainer bullet is too heavy for these loads. To achieve ca. 960 fps (292.6 meters per second) velocity, you must use about 0.5 gram of powder. (PLEASE NOTE: A crude estimation! Not a calculated suggested charge). This load is somewhat noisy, when shot without a suppressor. You didn't tell model and rifling twist of your H & R rifle. I am therefore unable to estimate, whether or not your bullets are able to become stabilized in flight by the available rotational rate. For the "S.WO.S." loads are recommended cast bullets with weight 200 to 240 grains, or even the spherical lead bullet - swaged one, or cast one, with diameter .43" (ca. 11 millimeters).
When you get recommended bullets, you should also tell us information as follows: Bullet weight and material. (Swaged lead alloy revolver bullets are O.K. for these loads). Length of your rifle barrel, measured from it's muzzle to the rear end of a cartridge chamber. Twist of the rifling (inches or preferably millimeters per complete turn of the bullet). Volume of the cartridge case. (Weight of cold pure water fulfilling the case up to it's mouth; in grams or grains). Our ballistician Markus is able to calculate easily a precise suggested charge with the German QUICKLOAD computer program, but he needs above mentioned "input" for the precise "output".
Charges of powders VihtaVuori N310 and AS-30N (i.e. HODGDON's original CLAYS) are about the same and you can shoot safely the lead alloy bullets as light as 200 grains with them at muzzle velocity ca. 290 meters per second. For spherical lead bullets the powder AP-30N may be "just a medicine what the Doctor orders". I don't know, whether the QUICKLOAD program is already able to output loads with it, but up-to-dates are coming to it likely soon.
1211 MMI; PT
LAPPING AND SHOOT-LAPPING OF RUST-PITTED RIFLE BORE
Dear Mr. Kekkonen: I was delighted to find such an excellent website for shooting enthusiasts. I have great respect for your work. I have an old Ross rifle in .303 British, (model 1910) which has been cut down in the barrel to 24". The stock has been roughly 'sporterized'. When I took delivery of the rifle, it was fouled with copper and other crap, when I finally got the bore clean, after rigging up a cleaning rod from 3/16" steel rod and an adapter for a Hoppe's .30 cal brush, I found the bore was quite pitted. I have not done much shooting with the old musket, but the rifle seemed to shoot into about maybe 2" at the Bedford Rifle Range.
The shoot was put on by the local A.M.A. I am wondering if it's worth the effort to get a replacement barrel, which could cost up to $500.00 Cnd, or I was toying with the idea of lapping out some of the roughness by the old lead bore lapping method, which I have seen described in different sources, most notably the 'Clyde Baker Gunsmithing Book'. I am kind of leery of overheating the barrel, as I have heard it is possible to solder the lap into the barrel, which would be a son of a gun. Could you devote some of your awesome Ballistics knowledge to my trifling inquiry? I have some 600 grit Aluminum Oxide powder (another kind of powder useful to us gun nuts). Thank you for your excellent forum!
The lapping die should be cast to the bore of a COOL barrel, and use as pure (soft) lead as available. The soft lead shall shrink and it shall definitely not become soldered into the cool bore. There is also some clearance between a lapping die and the bore wall for abrasive powder. 600 grit Al Oxide powder is "just what the doctor order" for lapping of the pitted bore. "Bolus Alba", i.e. the White Clay (also a very fine Aluminium Oxide) is good for lapping of factory-new bores, but your rifle needs somewhat more coarse abrasive. The soft lapping die may become expanded by hammering it in the bore between ends of two steel rods, diameter 7.5 millimeters. In TIKKAKOSKI Oy factory were the lapping dies (actually lead tubes) not cast to the bores at all, but expanded mechanically. Quality of original shave-cut (scrape) rifled and hand-lapped TIKKA barrels was or usually still is today magnificent, although the ORIGINAL Tikka rifles are growing old. Production of them was ended in early half of 1980s.
In Finland we have designed also a method "shoot-lapping" or "shlapping" in 1980. Some Yankee who made this very same process as his business prefer the term "Fire Lapping". This procedure was actually known already in 1850s by instruction leaflets of the SHARPS rifles. Shlapping was carried out by users of those buffalo guns by shooting about fifty first shots using unlubricated paper jacket around the lead bullets. Abrasive used were impurities of the contemporary blackpowder. Saltpeter and sulphur of it were never pure from the soil of earth. Best bullets for the shlapping are still today the cast lead alloy bullets shot "as cast", with diameter slightly bigger than is the groove diameter of your rifle. You may use bullets made for .32 caliber revolvers - but if they are not available, you may use also the common handloaded or factory-loaded cartridges with jacketed bullets and full powder charges.
You need ten loaded cartridges for the shlapping. You have already suitable abrasive (600 grit/ mesh Aluminium Oxide). Now you need just some sticky oil. The castor oil is good (if not best) for purpose. Just a couple of milliliters is needed. Go to the shooting range or other place where shooting is possible. Dip the bullets of five cartridges into the oil, down to the case mouth. Then dip them to the abrasive. Shoot one cartridge with a bullet dusted with Al Oxide. Then shoot a non-dusted cartridge. Shoot the next cartridge with dusted bullet and once again a non-dusted cartridge, et cetera... Now the bore of your rifle is shlapped. (Don't overdo the shlapping!). Bore of your rifle is presumably still pitted despite of shlapping, but the rust-eaten pits of your old musket bore are no more as greedy to accumulate the jacket metal fouling as they were before the shlapping. Accuracy may remain unaltered, but usually it is found to be improved as a sequence of the shlapping.
Corroded (rust-pitted) bore, like that of your ROSS rifle, may be fairly accurate after lapping or shlapping, but badly heat-eroded and/or worn-out (widened) bore is impossible to restore by this simplest procedure.
1111 MMI; PT
DEFLAGRATION OR DETONATION?
I was just doing some thinking since I went to the range for target practice today. What is happening in a rifle? Is the powder deflagrating or detonating. I know the primer is basically a blasting cap (mini).
Normal burning of powder is always deflagration (explosion-like burning, but still a combustion). Just the priming compound in the primer is detonating, but the priming charge is too small to cause any troubles. Excessive charge of too quickly burning powder shall cause explosion of the rifle, but it is is usually not yet a detonation. Too much reduced charge of smokeless powder may cause a real detonation by the incomplete primary combustion of a powder charge. Primary combustion is some kind of smouldering; incomplete disintegration of the powder. Generated gasses are still highly flammable, and if they are ignited by heat and/or pressure, they'll cause a Secondary Explosion Effect; a real detonation, generating about ten times or more as high peak pressure as cartridge case full of TNT.
Inventor of smokeless powder, Frenchman PAUL VIEILLE measured in 1880s reduced charge detonation pressures as high as 100.000 atmospheres, while TNT (tri-nitro-toluene) generates mere 7000 atmospheres, or somewhat more in it's chrystalline form. (In the artillery shells or blasting charges TNT is usually in cast form). For handloaders of cartridges is data or information about Starting Loads more needed than Maximum Charge data, because the pressure signs of primers and cases tell to him/her about approaching of the safe & sensible Maximum Load. There are listed the Suggested Starting Loads on many reloader's manuals - I know - but they are usually O.K. just for the rifle powders and too heavy for handgun/shotgun powders, even behind the cast or swaged lead alloy bullets useful for subsonic loads of rifle cartridges. If the powder is flammable enough, a handloader may read words "Starting Load" literally, but step the charges DOWN, not UP, until the nasty "ballistic crack" of a supersonic bullet is no more audible.
0611 MMI; PT
PREVENTING OF A DETONATION
I haven't done it in a few years but I used to size a lead pistol bullet down to .356 to shoot in my .35 Remington. I used a dacron wad and I think it was around 7.2 gr. of Red Dot shotgun powder. This I took deer with and had very little recoil. I wanted to load down for squirrel but don't understand detonation. I read the article on the web site, however still don't understand what happens. Can you direct me to more reading on this or please explain it?
Reduced Charge Detonation, or actually Secondary Explosion Effect ("S.E.E."; I prefer this term, coined by my German "school master" K.D. MEYER) is consequence of very VERY incorrect load of powder, along with some kind of faulty priming. It is almost impossible to produce S.E.E. in .35 Remington cartridge with use of handgun/shotgun powder like RED Dot, especially with lubricated lead handgun bullet. Charge 7.2 grains.. Perkele; where is my pocket calculator?!... 0.47 gram of RED DOT seems to be correct behind lead revolver bullets with the weight from 123 grains to 180 gr. (8.0 grams to 11.7 grams).
For squirrel hunting you may use the very same load 7.2 gr. of ALLIANT's RED DOT and 9 mm Luger round-point Full Metal Jacketed bullets, weighing 115 to 124 grains (7.5 to 8.1 grams). Finnish fighters shot squirrels and forest birds (including crows and ravens) to the pot with about similar loads of their SUOMI KP /-31 submachine guns during the "Swede Winter" 1941 - 42, before food stuffs delivery from Germany during our Third Independence War. (The "Nazis" rescued whole Finnish people from starving to extinction. FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT and especially a "Jude Schweinehund" HENRY MORGENTHAU rescued the Russian Red Army from starving until extinction during this very same era of history).
You may forget the dacron wadding, if you settle the powder charge to the rear-end of a cartridge before each shot by lifting the muzzle-end of your rifle/ pistol upwards - and prime your cartridges "Lege Artis" (by the rules of art); definitely not to the excessive depth, but on the level of case head or just slightly deeper. (Thickness of a human hair is a good "gauge" for primer seating). And don't deteriorate your primers with any oil or grease. Your load is O.K. for many lead alloy and some jacketed bullets; not prone to S.E.E. unless the ignition of it is faulty. You can prevent the troubles by use of reliable primers and "Lege Artis" seating of them.
S.E.E. starts from faulty ignition of powder charge. It smoulders and generates highly combustible gas mixture. Then the gas mixture explodes suddenly, generating hell-of-a high chamber pressure. Powder kernels burns like the firewoods in the stove, but the gas mixture explodes like a "knocking" mixture of gasoline and air in the cylinder of an internal combustion engine. And because the oxygen and burning materials of of this gas mixture are already mixed together, the explosion is sudden; not gradually advancing like a combustion of a gasoline & air mixture from a spark of spark plug in a cylinder of an internal combustion engine.
1511 MMI; PT
15 MM LeFAUCHEUX CARTRIDGE
I'm eagerly seeking for ballistic data of the 15 mm LeFaucheux that's been recently added to my cartridge collection. Anything like bullet weight, powder charge and muzzle velocity. Any information will please me very much.
I have almost no information about LeFaucheux pinfire cartridges on my very limited literature; sorry! I should beg it from our French visitors. (I am able to read somewhat French too, and translate the information into English). Dear Remo: Please, tell to me cartridge overall length and the case length of your 15 mm LFx cartridge. There were produced, as far as I know, pinfire cartridges also for rifled spare barrels of LeFaucheux shotguns, shooting very short pointed lead bullets, known as "cat's head", or in German "Katzenkopf". Usual length of their brass cases was 40 - 45 millimeters.
There were produced also 15 mm pinfire revolvers which were popular weaponry of French officers during Franco-Prussian War in early 1870s. Most of them were, however, exported to South-America, mainly to Argentine, where the cowboys - gauchos - preferred them for slaughtering of sick or injured bovine animals. In Europe were 7 mm and 9 mm LeFaucheux most popular in civilian use, because they were cheap and small in size. I have never seen 15 mm revolvers or cartridges in Finnish arms/ammo collections. They seems to be unknown also in Russia.
Pinfire handgun cartridges of LeFAUCHEUX & HOULLIER design.
1: 5 mm LFx. 2: 7 mm LFx. 3: 9 mm LFx, bulleted. 4: 9 mm LFx, with a capsule full of
"dust" shots and powdered Capsicum pepper. 5: 12 mm LFx. Overall and case
lengths of 15 mm LeFaucheux cartridge are presumably similar to 12 mm cartridge: C.O.L. 25
mm and case length ca. 15 millimeters. Case length of 15 mm and 20 gauge rifled shoulder
arms was 40 or 45 millimeters. (Drawings by ALEXANDR BORISOVICH ZHUK, Russia; from a book
"ASE-ATLAS", published in Finland/Finnish).
Halloween, 0311 MMI; PT
SUBSONIC LOADS FOR 6.5 MM SWEDISH MAUSER
I wonder if you can give me subsonic loads for the cal. 6,5 x 55 Swedish Mauser. I've bought a silencer for my rifle and now I'm eager to load subsonic cartridges.
Best regards: Oyvind, Norway
What kind of powders and bullets you have in your possession or available? How long is the barrel of your rifle? How many grams or grains of cold clean water contains the case, shot in your rifle? Ballisticians may calculate easily approximately correct subsonic load for your rifle, but they need information about maker & weight of bullet (cast one or jacketed; LAPUA 100 grains S341 is preferred, if available), producer and number or name of powder (VihtaVuori N310 or NORMA R1 are preferable, if available), barrel length including the chamber length, and case volume (grains of water, or grams of water, i.e. cubic centimeters of case volume).
In Finland we have experience about subsonic/ reduced charge loading of 6.5 mm Swedish Mauser cartridges since 1902, but the bullets and powders which were plentily available a century ago are UNFORTUNATELY no more available today.
1511 MMI; PT.
BERDAN BULLET SWAGE
Thanks very much for the information about the Berdan shooting! I really enjoy shooting the one that I own. It is unfortunate that so few are available here, for collecting and/or shooting. I think many of the retired Finnish Home Guard Berdans were imported into the USA in the late 1950's; most sold for $10-20 each. They are worth a lot more today!
Do you still have a set of swaging dies for this caliber bullet? Are you interested in selling a set to me? In the meantime, I will try and send a few dollars to help with your web site, which is to me the most interesting gun site on the web.
I have ever seen just one kit of Billinghurst Bullet Swage of my design made for 10.70 mm Berdan bullets (a true diameter of a projectile). It weighs ca. 10 lbs and is not for sale. You may ask, whether the U.S. firm of DAVID CORBIN is able and willing to produce some swage die kits for Berdan bullets, fit to the thread of usual handloading press. You should to send a couple of your cast bullets along with your order to Corbin Mfg.
I picked the address of would-be manufacturer of the swage dies from "GUN DIGEST 41st Annual Edition" printed in 1986. It was and may still be: CORBIN Mfg. & Supply Inc., P.O. Box 2659, White City, OR 97503; phone 503-826-5211. PLEASE NOTE: Address/ connection information is more than 15 years old! Web contact was not yet discovered in 1986. I could afford my most fresh GUN DIGEST book in 1987. Poverty is really thousand times more nasty plague than are AIDS, Anthrax, Pestilence and Smallpox altogether: It don't kill (unfortunately), but it is able to make the life of a ragamuffin very VERY inconvenient.
1811 MMI; PT
DOUBLE STAMPED RIFLE
Does the value of an unfired COLT AR 15 increase if the barrel has been stamped twice instead of once, with all the information of what type of caliber, twist rate and so on?
Definitely not! Fortunately enough, this kind of production fault does not REDUCE the value of your AR 15. Barrel of it may be made in some grey rainy Monday morning.
0311 MMI; PT
QUESTIONS IN ENGLISH, PLEASE!
A quien corresponda: Besearía saber la distancia de la boca de caño a los bafles y tamaño de la cámara de expansión, para un calibre 22 LR.
Gracias. Mi nombre es Juan Alejandro.
Dear Juan. Please, write your question in English. My ancient text-processing program is unable to place the "tilde" mark ~ on the letter "n". We are unable to write text in Spanish, Esthonian or Russian. If your English is poor, don't worry: I'll proof-read it and correct all the grammatical errors.
0511 MMI; PT
VALMET 412 .375 H&H BARRELS
Can you guide me to any Valmet 412 .375 H&H Magnum barrels? I cannot find any here is the U.S. I will be in Finland in the spring and was wondering if I could pick some up. Thanks for any info that you have.
Ask from SAKO Oy, which has been distributor of spare parts for VALMET 412 since late 1980s or early 1990s. E-mail address is firstname.lastname@example.org
0311 MMI; PT
I have a question that I just can't seem to get an answer to. I'd be delighted if you could help. I have a Tikka Whitetail M695 (synthetic stock) .30-06. The vintage (year of manufacture) is approximately 1999. Would a Tikka wooden stock from an earlier vintage 1989 - 1994 same model (695) be suitable to replace the synthetic stock on my rifle? Would it fit exactly, or would woodworking be necessary?
Thanks for your time: Bob.
You should ask from current manufacturer of TIKKA rifles, SAKO Oy. E-mail address is email@example.com . If the wooden stock does not fit exactly to the barreled action of your rifle, the fitting is usually easy to improve by slight woodworking or plastic bedding. If you can not carry out the fitting yourself, let some competent gunsmith to do the job. Always: "Better safe than sorry!" Tikka rifles of vintage 1989 - 1994 and 1999 were all made by SAKO Oy. Production of ORIGINAL Tikka rifles (made by TIKKAKOSKI Oy) was discontinued in early or mid-1980s.
Difference is barrel production: Original Tikka rifles had the bore rifled by scrape-shaving (like bores of barrels custom-made by famous HARRY M. POPE a century ago) and also hand-lapped with "good old time's" method; SCRUPULOUSLY!. Sako-made barrels are roto-forged by so-called APPEL-process and usually not lapped at all. It is impossible to say, which one production method is better, but the Appel-process is at least faster to carry out. Barrels of German MG-42 machine guns were produced by roto-forging, and they were long-lasting, if not shot red-hot with overly long bursts of fire, or actually by shooting more than 300 - 400 shots before removal of red-hot barrel and installation of cool spare barrel into the MG-42.
0311 MMI; PT
Newly issued Ebook about German Submachine Guns. One of the most comprehensive work on the subject :
The German Submachine Guns by Lyndon Haywood, www.hlebooks.com . Download page : http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/ebook/mp40load.htm
Foreword - WWI Historic recall
- Hugo Schmeisser
- The first true Machine Pistol or Sub-machine gun
- Heinrich Vollmer
- Hugo Schmeisser and the design of the Sturmgewehr
- A note on designations
- World War One Historical Background
- The trench warfare
- "Stossen" Shock Troops
- Von Ludendorf's offensives
- The Stossen Truppen had shown the way
Hugo Schmeisser and the Bergmann MP18.I
- A requirement for a close quarters combat weapon
- Luger long with the 32 round drum magazine
- A modied LP08 for burst fire
- A machine fire version of the C96 pistol
- Andreas Schwarzlose
- "Maschinen Pistole" 18
- "Maschinen pistole" 18, variant I
- Hugo Schmeisser and Bergmann
- Hugo Schmeisser and C.G. Haenel
- Haenel Schmeisser MP 28.II
- Anciens Etablissements Pieper in Herstal, Belgium
- Bergmann "Maschinen Karabiner" MP 34/1 and the MP35/1
- C.G. Haenel became VEB Ernst Thalman Works
Heinrich Vollmer Machine Pistols
- Vollmer invented a beltless feed for the MG08/15
- Earlier in 1925, Vollmer designed a machine pistol
- In 1929, Vollmer designed and manufactured a self-loading rifle
- Vollmer Machine Pistol 1925
- Vollmer Machine Pistol 1926
- The final Vollmer Machine Pistol 1930
- A long barrelled carbine version with a telescoping monopod
- The Vollmer Erma Machine Pistols
- The first designation may have been EMP 35
- Second, transitional, and third models
- French Silenced Model
- "Machinen Pistole" Erma MP740(f)
The Erma EMP Model 36
- Erma, with Vollmer's assistance, decided to modernise the EMP
- The machine pistol EMP36
The development of the MP38
- An "overnight" demand for machine pistols
- Erma were requested to design a suitable machine pistol
- The design was revised to allow mass production
- The MP38 fired full automatic only
- The early MP38 technical features
- Blank firing attachment and silencer
- The safety strap on the cocking handle
- MP38 "Gemischt" model
- MP38 components detailed
The introduction of the MP40
- The MP40 was designed for more economical mass production
- Albert Speer
- MP40 technical features
- MP40 first version components
- The "mündungshoner"
The MP40 Variations
- The second variation of the MP40
- The third variation of the MP40
- The fourth variation of the MP40
- The Winterabzug
- The fifth variation of the MP40
- The sixth variation of the MP40
- The seventh variation of the MP40
The Erma MP40/1 and MP44
- Maschinen Pistole 40/1 Double Magazine Model
- MP40/1 mechanical features
- The Erma "Maschinen Pistole" 44
- Construction was from steel tubes and pressed sheet metal
The Haenel Schmeisser MP41
- Based on the MP28.II and the MP40
- The MP41 was a somewhat retrograde step
- MP41 markings
Receiver and Magazine Manufacturers' Codes
- Waffenant Senior inspector's stamps
- Producers' codes
- Magazines pouches
- Magazines types and codes
- Iso view of the components
- Grip construction changes
- Phantom view of the gun
MP40/38 Complete Disassembling
- 49 pictures explained (until the last pin)
Books and sites
- Sites of interest
Our other sites to visit: www.lugerpistol.com www.militarebooks.com www.ebooktradecenter.com
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